New wheel sizes

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New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Wed May 06, 2015 1:43 am

I am going to do the scarebird conversion here this summer. I had a quick question first though- what wheels will I have to get? Woody's post on the conversion says that the old steel rims will not fit due to the caliper. I should be good with any 14 inch wheels that are modern, right? I am just looking through craigslist as I wanted to keep the cost down (hoped for under $200 for 4 rims) but wanted to make sure I got the right rims. Do you guys have any tips? Thanks!!
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by rt338b on Wed May 06, 2015 6:05 am

The biggest thing to look at is the outside dimension of the caliper so that the wheel inside will not hit the caliper. Most of the calipers for like metric cars such as S10 Malibu will clear easily on wheels due to them having a smaller rotor. Later model cars have 17" rims for this reason. Any reason you don't want to run 15" wheels?
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Wed May 06, 2015 7:54 am

Not really.. I actually just found an ad near for four 15 inch rims and tires with less than 500 miles on them for 250. Are most people running 15s with no issue?
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Wed May 06, 2015 4:56 pm

Thanks Keith. For some reason I had 4x114.3 stuck in my head. Glad you posted. Someone posted or I came across some old Datsun rims a couple of months ago. I probably should have pulled the trigger on those. Thanks again!
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by rt338b on Wed May 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Doesn't anybody like redrilling to 5 lug? After that your options are unlimited. Cost of drilling is small, local place here was redrilling for b/c of choice for 75 a pair
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Wed May 06, 2015 8:50 pm

Never considered it to be honest. I guess it is another option.
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Thu May 07, 2015 12:42 am

If price wasn't a concern I would have some torq thrusts on there. I think they are about perfect for a classic car. But, that is not the case. Odd fun fact here- deloreans have the same bolt pattern. I also like those wheels. Unfortunately the front and rears are 2 different sizes. I was going to ask my dad to mock his up there until I remembered that.
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Thu May 07, 2015 10:55 am

Im gonna jump in here so that someone doesn't buy the wrong thing -- they are 4 x 114.3 or 4 x 4.5 NOT 4 x 100 -- additionally, Ive found out that American Racing has several wheels ( if you're willing to purchase new ) that can be custom drilled to our bolt pattern.  No need to convert anything over ( unless you want too ) or re-drill to get modern sizes/styles.  Just fyi--

If one is bent on still having disc brakes upfront, you can do the corvair swap fairly cheap and this would still allow you to go back to OEM ( both wheels and brake setup ) pretty easily if ever needed.

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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Thu May 07, 2015 11:15 am

Here's a short list of cars that have the same bolt pattern as ours, may help someone find something in the used market BUT keep in mind most of the newer cars are front wheel drive and have very high positive offsets and while they may bolt up they won't allow full turn...

Acura - Legend '86-'89
Buick - Special '61-'63
Chevrolet
Corvair all 4-bolt
Chevy II all 4-bolt
Sprint '85-'87
Nova ('61-'70)
Datsun/Nissan - most models to '89
Dodge Colt '79-'88
Dodge Colt (early)
Ford
Mustang all '65-'68 4-bolt
Falcon, Maverick, Granada all 4-bolt
Mazda - 626, RX7 '83-'87 ????
MGA, MGB, MGC
Olds - F-85 '61-'63
Plymouth - Arrow, Sapporo '79-'88
SAAB - 900 to '87
Toyota - most exc. MR2 and P.U. to '89
Triumph TR 1..6

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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Thu May 07, 2015 3:18 pm

woody1640 wrote:Josh: Your right on the bolt sizing, my bad I'm glad you caught that. I've got to much **** on my brain these days


Keith

NP Keith!! It happens to all of us. I estimate large construction projects ( ie churches, roads, watermains, etc... ) and with all the #'s floating around my head I can't keep anything numbers related straight anymore lol -- I have to dbl and triple check things all the time just to be sure.

Josh


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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Fri May 08, 2015 6:04 am

Thanks Josh. I will keep cruising craigslist. Thanks for the list too. That will be helpful. I was not aware of the positive offsets, so that helps.
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Mon May 11, 2015 12:26 am

Has anyone run these wheels on their car? Looks like they are off of a Datsun/Nissan. I was wondering if the offset is too much. I am guessing that these will not work with the scarebird conversion.
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Mon May 11, 2015 10:09 am

Was there supposed to be an attachment or link Bill? Do you know or can you tell if the mounting pad is basically centered in the wheel? or is pushed to the front or back of the rim?

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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Mon May 11, 2015 2:46 pm

Sorry... Here is the link. It says Mustang, but looking around on the net makes me believe they actually came off a Nissan.

http://rockford.craigslist.org/pts/5018865089.html
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Mon May 11, 2015 2:48 pm

This is why I thought they may have come off a Nissan-

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/40784-13-inch-western-turbine-wheels/
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Mon May 11, 2015 3:25 pm

The 2nd linked set would work for you. At least from a width and backspace standpoint. You'd have to have them confirm the bolt pattern is correct and the width and backspace info was the same as the 2nd link. If everything checks Id give'm a go.

As a side note, if you're not in a hurry I have the tool that allows you to measure for wheel maximums so you know exactly how much width and offset you could run and be ok. I just haven't gotten around to taking a wheel off yet to determine it on mine yet. I hope to soon but Ive got SOOOO much happening right now its hard to find the time.

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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Mon May 11, 2015 3:35 pm

I just talked to the guy. They are 14x5.5, so they must be a little different than those in the second link. But looking at the wheels I am betting the offset would be the same. I told him I might grab one from him this week to see if it will work on the car. Is the offset concern because it might rub on the inside of the fender or the outside? I just want to know what to look for if I mock them up.

You are preaching to choir about the time. I am about to hand the Buick off to a buddy to get the mechanicals in shape so that I can drive it this summer. I know that if I try to do it all myself it won't be until next summer. Just don't seem to have the time either.
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Mon May 11, 2015 3:59 pm

Typically speaking rear wheel cars need to have 0 or negative offset ( ie the mounting pad is further away from the face of the wheel, pushing the wheel further out.  In some cases this might put the wheel/tire past the fender or cause rubbing if its too much and the suspension isn't sitting high enough to clear, think slicks - they tend to have high negative offsets ).  In our car's interest a 0 offset would be your best bet in fitting + it won't change your suspension geometry.

While I haven't pulled off one of these wheels yet I'm willing to bet you'll find the mounting pad is directly in the center of the wheels sealing beads.

On front wheel drive cars it's just the opposite -- they tend to have very high positive offsets.  This is because they are driven by CV's upfront.  Most ( if not all ) fwd wheels will not work on a rwd car, but high positives can be found on newer rwd cars but these new cars were designed for it our older cars weren't.

Unfortunately, unless the rim has a tire on it you're gonna have a hard time finding out if you can clear lock to lock without something rubbing.  Additionally, keep in mind you're best to set the car down ( or place the stands under the lower aarm, near the ball joint ) so the suspension is loaded before attempting to turn wheel lock to lock -- a unloaded suspension is not going to have the same geometry as a loaded one.  At least not upfront.  The rear isn't as critical since it doesn't turn, it just travels up and down ( obviously lol ).

Here's a great link that helped me understand the basics but ultimately I chose to buy the tool -- I can't tell you how many times Ive heard people buying wheels "thinking" they would fit only to find out it rubs somewhere or they don't work at all.  Bolt pattern is really only a very small part of the equation when wheel hunting. That's also why most places won't take wheels back once they've been mounted on a car unless they were directly responsible for sizing them for the vehicle in question.

Hope this isn't info overload or discouraging -- if you were closer Id just let you borrow the tool so there wasn't any guessing.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101

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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Mon May 11, 2015 9:04 pm

That is a lot of information, but it is very helpful. The more I get into this the more I feel like I could do more harm then good changing tire sizes, etc.

I don't want to buy something and end up damaging the fender or something else. I would bet an aged suspension would cause extra issues with this. I would never feel discouraged - I am just glad you took the time to explain it to me.

Josh, you are a wealth of information. Thanks a ton!
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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by regal81455 on Tue May 12, 2015 8:22 am

Bill wrote:Josh, you are a wealth of information. Thanks a ton!

HA! IDK about all that just experienced and by experienced I mean Ive made plenty of mistakes to find out what works and what doesn't. My boss tells me all the time that educations cost money -- doesn't matter if it's out of a book or through experiences and trust me Ive gotten some costly educations lol. Anywhoo, anytime dood, just glad to be able to share my experiences with others in hopes of saving them some of the cost and grief Ive dealt with.

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Re: New wheel sizes

Post by Bill on Tue May 19, 2015 11:48 pm

I chickened out on the rims. I just figured I would paint my original rims and get new tires on them. I was too nervous about the offsets, etc. I figured this would cause the least amount of headaches. I have seen rims on the newer Camaros with a black D-slotted center and chrome lips. I thought it looked cool and tried to reproduce it on our stock wheels. I don't think it turned out half bad considering I only have $50 wrapped up in paint, clear, and wet sandpaper.




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