Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

LOL

https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=62

Is this the product you are talking about?

Very nice write-up. I really appreciate the informaiton! I haven't done my fronts yet, but now I know what I am going to do for sure. Way more cost efficient then the kits, as you said.

lol

Thanks for the writeup and these pics! Looks and sounds like it goes together pretty easy. Will definintely keep this in mind. Can you get a pic of the master cylinder? Id like to see that as well...

I hope these help. I got the 60's AMC master cylinder like Keith said. I got it from O'Riellys. I think these pictures show the framerails and the modification to make it fit. I have run into one issue. I re-used the distribution block and I thought the taillight switch fit right into the largest hole in the distribution block. Now it sits in there loose. I am going to have to take another look and see if I stripped it (which I do not think I did) or if it needs some sort of adapter. When I tried to bleed the brakes fluid came out of it. Let me know if you need another angle.

Keith asked me to post these a few days ago. Sorry, yesterday turned in to a cluster#$%# -- dumb teenage drivers caused me to total my truck yesterday -- fortunately we all walk away unharmed. Here's his pix of his MC -- so strange that the covers are different even though the part #'s are not. LOL

I'm in process of doing this conversion over the winter as well.

- The brackets were sourced from Scarebird.
- The master cylinder is a '94-up S10 unit. It's aluminum, 1" bore, and is not much longer than the stocker. However, I have to figure out a way to retain the pedal pushrod.
- I am using calipers from CPP. They are a nice, clean casting and come loaded with pads, pins, and bleeders. At $60 apiece, they're a little pricier than rebuilt stockers (about $30 with core charge), but you still have to buy pads etc. I think the added cost, when all parts are considered, is probably minimal. Here's the link to the calipers - http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1955_1970_Fullsize_Cars/CP412526.htm

Have you gut this one in, yet? Could you please give a part number and if possible a picture or 2?

KeithG

lol

I thought I'd share a few more specifics about my particular application of the Scarebird kit.

As previously mentioned, I'm using the Scarebird brackets and recommended hoses/rotors, CPP calipers, and '2001-up S10 aluminum master cylinder. Now that the parts are installed and I've got a month+ of driving under my belt, I can report that the function is excellent. Good pedal feel/effort, and greatly improved stopping power compared with the front drums.



Master Cylinder - the installation was straightforward. The mounting ear span is the same as the stock master, so it bolted right up to the firewall. I had to fabricate a means to retain the pedal pushrod to the master, since S10s are all power steering masters. My fab job is a little questionable, so I won't post how I did that and will figure out a better way soon...

Plumbing - I left the stock distribution block in place and simply blocked off the output for the rear brakes. The front output from the master goes to the input of the distribution block, while the rear master output plumbs to a "T" fitting containing the stock brake switch, then runs to a pressure valve to control the rears. I modified the stock rear line to fit to the output of the pressure valve.



Hubs - I installed longer studs in the hubs to account for the thicker rotor. Also, a machine shop needs to turn down the hub outer diameter to fit the rotor inner diameter. I had the machine shop perform a relatively tight fit here to help with rotor piloting.



That's it! works great.

Can anyone confirm or deny that this kit will fit under 14" rims? I read somewhere that you need 15" rims to do this. If 14s will work, I'll do it this year as I already have 14" rims on the car. I have been waiting as if I need to go to 15", this becomes a much larger project. (5 lug conversion, new rims, new tires in addition to the kit and all the brake hardware and fabrication.

Keith (Chicago)

lol

Now I'm excited! Thanks.

Putting together a shopping list.

The NAPA part number 47-36237 for the master cylinder does not come up on the NAPA page. The one I did find is this: Dorman M56193. This jibes with the info given and other references. 1" bore, RHS fittings. I think I'll get the CPP calipers and source the rest from RockAuto. The rotors are being blown out at $11 (Bendix 141320 and others at the same price). The things I am not completely clear about are the hoses I get the 1979 Seville, but 15" rims is not helpful when searching. Model, Make, Engine. I think I found them on RockAuto: Bendix 77225 which is for a 79 Seville. Can anyone confirm this? Also, for the hubs. I will drill out the studs. What length were these replaced with? A part number or dimensions would be great. Are they 7/16 - 20?

I started my search here:
Jegs Studs

Also, in the picture are some adapters for the hydraulic line to the M/C. What is the spec for the adapters?

It looks like I can do the M/C installation and rear pressure reducer and get that working before I do the rest of the work on the hubs. I have spent all summer trying to get my brakes to work correctly and am ready to give up getting the OEM to work. I have all new hardware on the rear (cylinders, springs, shoes) and polished and new rubber/springs, shoes on the front. All bled and shoes adjusted. It still locks up the rear upon any pedal pressure greater than a feather. I am guessing the next step is to replace the front brake hoses and I can do this and replace the M/C with the dual one and add a pressure reducer for the rear. I ordered that one from CPP on ebay, already.

Does anyone know if I can I re-use the push rod from the pedal to the M/C off the original? It does not appear that the Dorman M/C has any push rod.

Ok, I just spent an hour or so researching all the info on the Yahoo site and here. Still have a few questions.

Looking at Bruce's notes, He used an aftermarket 7/8" M/C (ABS Power Brake M81102), there is mention of an AMC/Jeep M/C (Centric 13063010) and an '82 Fairmont (Dorman M105808). These are a bit confusing, too. The AMC looks like it has a 1" bore. The Fairmont is 21mm and is designed for power brakes. (earlier Fairmonts were available with manual brakes and have a different M/C) I believe I will have to remove the check valve from this M/C if I use it, but its smaller diameter should result in lower pedal pressure (and longer travel) for a reasonable stop. The ABS Power Brake unit should be even lower pressure and longer travel. It appears to be a 'remote reservoir' unit and will require me to mount a reservoir somewhere above the M/C. Any comments on the pedal effort for the different options? Both the Fairmont and AMC are available pretty cheaply from Rock Auto. Waiting on pricing from ABS Power Brake.

Keith

What are you currently using for a master cylinder? You must have something in there you are testing it with if you get the lock-up issue. I did not do the conversion but you can see the pictures I have posted in this thread with the master cylinder I went with. I did not have to make any changes to the pedal or pushrod. I don't have the part number, but I just asked for the 1960's AMC MC that they had in stock. Let me know if that helps you out at all, as I know it is a different application.

I am currently using the stock M/C. I have been struggling with getting the car to stop correctly and wanted to do this before I converted to disc brakes. At this point, I am done with trying to fix this and am going to start moving towards front discs. No matter what I do, it wants to lock the rears before the fronts. If I drive it around, the rear wheels get warm and the fronts all stay stone cold. I have rebuilt the wheel cylinders and they all move easily. There are no ridges or anything else that is impeding front shoe deployment. The complete brake system is stock at this point and all components separately check out. The only thing I can suspect at this point is the brake hoses to the front wheels are collapsing under pressure.

Since I am going to discs on the front and have confirmed that the rears work correctly (return correctly, deploy correctly, new cylinders, new shoes) and I am replacing the master, hoses, and the corners at the front, I have stopped diagnosing and am going to start replacing components to go to the discs. When I get the dual master on, I'll have a adjustable proportioning valve (ordered and on its way) as well and will be able to adjust it to get the bias I need. I am just wondering about the 'feel' of the 1" (AMC) versus the 7/8" (ABS Power Brake) versus the 21mm (Ford Fairmont/Mustang) before I order one.

Also, Have you drilled out the front studs yet? What size studs are needed? I am guessing 7/16-20 x 1-11/16 with a 0.610 knurl, but have not yet drilled one out and do not yet know the diameter nor the depth of the knurl. The Buick Service bulletin from 1964 says to use a 9/16 drill bit, so I am guessing 0.610, but do not know. I PM'd you , so we may be able to meet up and compare notes as I am in Chicago.

Keith

lol

Same here. O'Riellys and I think it was $19.

Kiethg - I sent you a PM back...