Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Came with the kit, there's a picture of it in my build on the board. I modified the firewall so it would sit straight. If I remember it might of needed a little cutting to sit in the original position. Its a manual.

I know I saw that post about straighten out the mounting but can't find it.
Where can I find it?

projects, what I'm starting with. Even shows pic of part number.

So the alum MC is the one supplied by Ben?
He Changed from the big cast iron.
Can you give me an overall length on that MC, mount face to nose?

BTW, nice work.

6 inches long from back side of mount point, 3 inches wide if you use allen screws, flush mount, to block unused ports. The cup is reversible to mount in either direction. The kit is complete came with everything you needed including front brake lines, guess I should of taken a picture of everything it came with. If I remember I'll scan the invoice.
Oh and thanks for the compliment, it helps to keep me motivated.

I see the pics with the PN but I can't quite make them out. No hurry, but when you are working on the car next time could you post the PN and Brand if you know it. Thanks

Don't know the brand and keep forgetting to write the numbers down...I'll get them soon

Interested in this as well. I need to replace the Fairmont M/C on my car and do not want to cut any more than I need to. Specs (numbers) on the M/C would be interesting. Is it 1" or bigger?

Doing a bit of googling.. I got the number off the picture in your build thread. It may be a Hyundai part# 58600-4A610. I did not find anything here in the US on it. It looks too big in diameter to be used in the OEM position. Googling around, I ran across a 95 mustang with a 1.062 dia, but it looks too long. I have one of these at home and it will not fit without modifications I am not willing to do.

Keith

Just talked to Ben. He said they changed to this MC from the big GM one a while ago because it is much smaller. Has the deep pocket for manual push rod set-up. I too have the Fairmont 7/8" which works okay but has the long pedal. This one is 1" diam. He will get full dimensions to me. Says it may not be available in the US, gets it from one of his wholesalers. Shows pretty economical on the Asian parts supplier sites.

you have the right part# 58600-4a60

Talked to Ben. Yes, 6" long, 1.5" diam, 1" cylinder diam, deep manual brake rod socket, outlets both sides. So it should fit without mods, I think. Too bad this wasn't available before. Looks like the good option.

Ben's price for the mc alone is about $100 incl shipping. I have looked around and other than offshore I don't see any aftermarket sales here. I have not contacted Hyundai dealer, I'll check them today I guess.

I am finally back at this brake project. I will be replacing my Fairmont M/C and want to know if anyone has the part number of the AMC M/C they bought? The Dorman numbers I have run across are: Dorman M73333/ Raybestos MC36386 which is what I think is the 'best one to get' for our Buicks. It is 1" diameter with 1/2-20 port fitting threads. It is for a disc/drum arrangement and appears to have a 'deep hole' in the piston. I am hoping that it will have the checkvalve in the rear, but will see. When I made the spreadsheet a few years ago, these were $25-35. Now they are $50-75 and they are not very 'available'. None at RockAuto. I found it at Summit and bought mine at 'finditparts.com. (finditparts did not have it and I had to go to Summit for 75.00 yikes!) I'll sell my Ford M/C on ebay as it will not fit. Probably better for pedal feel, but just too big. I am guessing these are drying up since it is for a none too popular car and quite old. Get 'em while you can, maybe?

For the record, to go with model make and year to get one of these from a parts house, you tell them it is for a

'70 AMC Ambassador  5.0L V8 Front Disc, Rear Drum

I think I will take the Fairmont 21mm M/C and see if I can bore it out for a slightly larger than 1" piston. Maybe 1-1/32 or 1-1/16 if I can get a seal kit... I can turn one pretty easily

Just read through this thread, again, and am quite disappointed in Scarebird. I did the engineering for them and offered it to them for free. They did nothing and this caused others to have problems. All because they did not correct their bolt hole location error. Also disappointed in CPP that they would not accept that their pin center distance was wrong. 1mm is not 'close enough' for this, IMO.

BCCP also has a new MC for their kits which is an alum dual circuit made for manual Disc/Drum. Looks nice, very compact. I didn't see it generally available when I tried to find it.
He will sell it separate from kit but he wants about $100.

I gotta say I have been putting miles on my 62 with the Fairmont master, have gotten used to it, and think it’s ok. The pedal is lower than a lot of manual breaks but the pressure on the pedal is not too heavy(would be stiffer/harder with a 1”), travel is not too far once you are in the pedal, the brakes work well and are easy to modulate. This is a 4 lug system with the smaller calipers so I guess the Fairmont is ok. I believe the BCCP 5 lug conversion comes with bigger calipers and that new 1” aluminum master he supplies.

Well, I finally put the 'AMC' master on today. Not too bad a job since other stuff has already been done. You need to oval the mount holes to work on the Skylark. The bolt center distance is 3 -3/8" on the Skylark and the AMC is less. Did not measure it exactly but it looked like 3-1/8", but I needed to set it up in a mill and oval the mount holes about 1/8 per side. Made a new line for the front (rear most) master cylinder port as it is 1/2" and not 5/8" like on the Fairmont M/C.

I did note that the rear (forward most) piston seems to have a weak return spring. This is worrying as it did not always return completely (lacking 1/8" or so) when I bench bled it. Since I ovaled the holes, I cannot return it, but will look for a rebuild kit for it to keep on hand if it does not act consistently. I could potentially replace it with the one from the fairmont master as it looks similar. I disassembled it and inspected it and all looks good finish wise and everything else. Reassembled with brake assembly lube and tried again. I hate that you have to question the quality of each part you get these days.

The pedal feel is much better, IMO. The long pedal with the 21mm Fairmont cylinder is quite modulate-able as is mentioned above but it goes almost all the way to the floor and that worries me a bit. This one firms up much faster which may also engage the pressure operated brake light switch a bit better, but I do not know.

YMMV.

How’s that working for you Keith?

I love it. It does require more pedal effort to stop the car, but it is much more 'confidence inspiring' to have a nice stiff pedal that will grind down the 2700 lb car smartly. It kind of feels like the difference between power brakes and manual brakes (on a Euro, not American car) with regards to the amount of pedal force required to stop. I did have to adjust the pedal height slightly when swapping master cylinders and also adjust the pedal mounted brake light switch, but am happy with it.

On a side note, rebuild kits for these AMC master cylinders are more expensive than the new M/C. They are also more expensive than 2 yrs ago by 3x...

Keith

I have the fairmont master that Iwant to get rid of if anyone wants it. I think I paid $25.00 for it. I disassembled it and repacked with brake lube. Ready to install.

Keith and anyone else who wants to chime in-

Background-
I have a 4 lug conversion using a BCCP bracket. (S10 calipers, Mitsu galant rotor,  reworked stock hubs-same stuff as Scarebird) worked with him on the bracket to place the caliper in very tight to the rotor “hat” so that the pads did not overlap the rotor outer radius. However it created a problem with wheel fitment. The inside corner of the caliper hits the very corner of the wheel lug bolt center and requires the use of a 1/4” spacer to move the wheel out. 15” modern disc brake wheels. Problem is the tire hits top arch of wheel opening in the fender on occasion. Otherwise works great. But IRRITATING. Hope the pics attached.

Question-
1. Any problem like this with scarebird bracket?
    -rubs, spacer, …

2. Looking at earlier pics in this thread looks like pads hang off outer radius of caliper with scarebird bracket.
   -Is that right?

3. But scarebird setup works well from descriptions despite a small pad overlap.

If it works well I think Ill swap out the brackets.

Thanks for any info.

Yes, I had to file off the corner of the brake caliper to clear with new pads. Not nearly as much for the Koenig wheels I bought, though. Trial fitting and filing, then trial fitting again. I don't have the scar here right now, but think I may still have thin spacers on it, still. It was a shame to do that on the powder coated calipers, but stopping is much more important than looks.

So it rubbed like my pic show?

Do you recall if the pads were slightly off the outer radius on the rotor?
The earlier pics in this thread look like it.

I dont need much more space at the “hat”tore ent rubbing what with the grinding ive done.

My other option is to buy new wheels with more backspacing and use the spacer.
Currently have 3.625”(3 5/8”) backspacin.

@62cutlassconvert. Yes mine rubbed and I installed 5mm spacers until I was able to file it off. I still keep a spacer in the trunk so my -87 Saab 900 space saver spare will fit without hitting.

I am running these wheels Koenig Rewind with 205-65R15 tires. The wheels are ET0 or 0 offset (3.5in backset). I filed off the corners of the calipers. I do not have a picture showing how the calipers/wheels/pads all look and the car is still in storage. I can check later, but I do not think it hung off the edge of the disc. I don't think I had to modify the pad backing at all to clear. It was not much. When I laid out the bracket, I did it based on the dimensions from the wilwood caliper specs. D154 Specs Pretty sure it fit properly.
Brake Bracket

So with a standard steel wheel you need to use a 5mm (~.200”) spacer or it hit even after you ground the corner off?

And with the Konig Rewind ( mini lite styled) the wheel center is smaller so it doesnt hit?