Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:40 pm

What is that, a GM pattern? Check Wheel Vintiques for steel wheels, maybe they have something that will fit your caps. Very poor and getting worse tire selection in 14" rims, good selection in 15" rims. Probably some late 60's 14" wheels made for disc brake app but again tire selection is going away.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by custom880 on Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Thought I'd chime in here. I called Ben at http://bccpbrakes.blogspot.com/ and he has a set up for brakes a complete kit for around 600.00$. It comes with a chevy bolt pattern 5x 4 3/4 I think. He also has axles for the rear with the same bolt pattern. I'm tending to lean with his stuff and give it a try. For the rear brake I'm going drum and he said you can use old drums and have them re-drilled  or there is a replacement that will fit with the proper bolt pattern. Keep you guys informed.
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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:46 pm

Did the 4 lug disc brake conversion with BCCP. Had a few issues but Ben was very good at working with me to straighten things out. I believe the 5 lug conversion would be a better program, BUT the MC he sells will require ALOT of cutting, see the trials and tribulations in previous posts for options. If I did it again I toss the cheap cast Iron S10 calipers everyone supplies and go the AFCO calipers in steel (nice) for about $50ea or Alum (very nice) for $110ea from Summit, you can go higher if you want. Nicer casting and thinner, I ran into rubbing problems on my wheels and had to clearance the calipers and use 1/4" spacers for the rotor face to move the wheels out.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:28 pm

Also, I believe Moser has the specs for our axles and can make up 5 lug to your spec if you want. Don't know who Ben uses or what the cost is but Moser are good quality axles for a good sanity check.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by ctiwater on Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:48 pm

I may have to consider the BCCP conversion myself. Ordered the brackets from scarebird on 8/25, about 2 weeks ago emailed them asking if it had shipped and was told they were delayed due to their move from Spokane. Then late last week they sent a mass email saying their supplier is having issues with their laser with no ETA for when they'll be back up. But at this point I've milled the hubs, have the discs on the car just need the brackets (planned on staying 4 lug). So pretty much stuck at this point unless someone knows where or who sales a similar bracket for the 4 lug setup.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:58 pm

I think those are your choices at this point. BCCP can supply brackets alone I would think. Unless he has modified them since I was getting them, be aware the calipers are pulled in toward the center to make full pad contact with the rotors with the BCCP brackets. Good for braking but as I say above had to clearance and space for wheel clearance. I think the Scarebird brackets leave the pads hanging off the edge of the rotor, might not require additional spacing, don't know. I think that may be addressed in an earlier post.Gonna have to pull the rotor to put on the bracket one way or the other, so no big deal. As long as you're parting it you might talk to Afco on the calipers, maybe less spacing requirements and better hook up for the flex lines too. Plus, they look and probably work better.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by WillCut on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:09 pm

62cutlassconvert wrote:What is that, a GM pattern? Check Wheel Vintiques for steel wheels, maybe they have something that will fit your caps. Very poor and getting worse tire selection in 14" rims, good selection in 15" rims. Probably some late 60's 14" wheels made for disc brake app but again tire selection is going away.


Unfortunately its not that easy... I called Wheel Vintiques a while back ago along with corker. The wheel patter is the pattern coming from the corvair hub I am going to use to convert my 63 to a 5 bolt pattern. Thought it would be easier to find rims.

Anyhow I cant find a place that sells 15" 5x4.75 with the 9 1/4 caps we have. they usually sell the 10 1/2. I want to retain the stock look.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:00 pm

Was talking to Wilwood Tech on calipers and pedal problems and they drew my attention to what they call the "Remote Tandem Master Cylinder, PN 260-14242-P at 1" bore. Takes either direct mount plastic or billet reservoirs or remotely mounted reservoirs, right or left outputs, can get in a kit with the prop valve, and it's quite small/slender. Only 6.5" long in 15/16", 1", 1.125 inch bore. NO CUTTING of our cars should be required! Not cheap at $260 for MC only including plastic reservoirs on Summit in a black or ball burnished alum finish.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by regal81455 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:03 pm

I actually looked at that as well -- I'm happy with my install but I'd certainly be interested in seeing someone take this approach and report back as well. Might be a pretty good option!

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:21 am

Like that Wilwood you installed regal and I'll bet it works nice. Both Wilwood and Afco say the Fairmont 7/8" bore MC I am using is too small and will result in the long pedal, which is what we have discovered, although it results in good braking once you get there.

Bill, How did that 1" AMC MC finally work out. Certainly the low cost 1" bore option.

Does a 1" bore MC result in a pedal that has some pedal movement at the top or is it right at the top when the brakes come on?

Tim_D, how did you finally work out the rod retainment in the alum S10 MC? Did it work out. Actually have one of those from my original search for an MC.

Looked back at the threads but lots of info there and didn't see final dispositions on those 2 items.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by ctiwater on Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:24 pm

So finally got my brackets in, and got everything installed, but still having a bit of a "time" with the set up. Looks like a lot of the issues folks here had I did as well. I'm still having a bit of a problem with the calipers. The distance you guys have between the rotor and the caliper pins is night and day to what I'm seeing. I have actually ended up trying two different calipers and had worse luck with those listed in the scarebird documentation than the initial ones I had on (off a 90's 2WD S10 opposed to 4WD). The calipers listed the rotor hits the caliper itself and is damn close to the pins, while the 2WD calipers clear the caliper but hit the pins (on one side). I think this is similar to what Keith described, however I can get the pins in.... the clearance is just wacky. Was there another resolution to this other than the modification of the bracket that was mentioned in the thread?

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by ctiwater on Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:13 pm

So I got a little annoyed with the way everything was fitting together so searched for a fix last night. Since it seems to be working great I thought I'd share what i found in case anyone else encounters a similar situation.

I pretty much encountered all the issues others here did (e.g. couldn't get 3rd bolt to go in on bracket....noticed one of the holes wasn't drilled straight on both of my brackets, so I re-drilled), had caliper fitment issues, this was sort of my own doing. I had bought all the parts while waiting for the brackets since they were delayed and picked up calipers from a 2WD S10 as mentioned above.... I got them to work, but the 4WD calipers are a better fit, and you don't have to modify where the banjo bolt comes out like I did on the initial calipers I purchased.

Here is where it got interesting for me. The rotors I got, were exactly what Scarebird recommends. But as you can see from my picture above I had almost no clearance on my upper pin. I thought I may have encountered the issue mentioned earlier in this post but both of my calipers were the correct 5.46 distance, and not the 5.5 that was mentioned on the CPP set.

I was confused, and finally settled on what OTHER calipers are 4x4.5 that might work...... and found some interesting information on another Misub forum. It appears that around the year of 1989, there were a few different rotors used on different gallants, essentially 3 to be exact. The 3 versions sort of vary by manufacturer in size... but basically they come in 276mm, 266mm and 256mm. The ones I picked up based on the Raybestos number on the scarebird instructions were 266mm. Since they didn't give me enough clearance I went ahead and sourced some rotors that ere the 256mm version (Raybestos 96110 or 96110R Monroe). Got them home, and made sure they still fit my hubs since I had those matched to the other rotors. These are a little tight, so I may ultimately need to turn my rotor ever so slightly if after some more time any problems arise. But all of my issues were resolved with this, plenty of clearance on my pins now.... and the car stops.... now on to getting a new master cylinder since I too have some pretty long pedal throw with the smaller bore MC.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:25 pm

Interesting on that rotor size. I will say that although I do have a long pedal with the 7/8" Fairmont MC it does work well. Good stopping power with manual brakes, but if you're not used to it the long pedal with braking near the floor would be a surprise.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by ctiwater on Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:47 am

Ya know I did another pressure bleed today with my motive bleeder, after I redid my rear to distro block line that I suspected of leaking and I saw a huge difference. Yeah the pedal is a little long, but for me at least not worth the hassle of swapping in a new MC.... at least for now. In retrospect if I was doing this again, I'd go with the smaller rotors, and obviously get the right calipers (4WD s10) and it would have been essentially bolt in (with the exception of cutting to fit the MC and pushrod).

Looking back at this thread it looks like I wasn't alone, from what someone else posted (they too had the grind a nub off the caliper and cut for the line where the banjo goes in to prevent hitting the spindle), that is the issue with the 2WD S10 calipers. The 4WD calipers the banjo bolt port is located differently then the 2WD caliper, the 2WD will hit the spindle, where the 4WD clears it easily. My 4WD calipers also didn't have the casting nub that needed to be ground off. Just some info for the next guy. I currently have one of each on the car.... cause I already did all that work. Smile

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by nmowery on Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:54 am

I have a 1962 Buick Skylark that had the Scarebird conversion done to the front brake system. One of the wheel hub bolts broke off and damaged the wheel hub so I need to replace it. Since it’s a conversion I have no idea what car this wheel hub came off of. It looks similar to the 4 lug hub I see in the pictures on this forum. Can anyone tell me what wheel hub this is?


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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by regal81455 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:00 am

All the hubs on the conversions I'm aware of were original to the car if they are still 4 lug pattern.  They were pressed out of the OEM drum.  I'd see if you can find a replacement hub or drum assembly.  May have to try ebay...

Sorry for the late response btw...

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:53 am

The diameter of the stock hub will need to be reduced slightly to fit into your rotor hat. See Scarebird directions for the info as to about how much. Better to work up on it than do too much.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by regal81455 on Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:29 am

Good catch - thanks for adding that! cheers

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bccp brake install

Post by custom880 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:01 pm

Just got done with it, took a few hours with no problems.




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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:55 pm

Is that a 5 lug hub?

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by custom880 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:18 am

Yup, 5 lug gm pattern. Was easy to install and no problems with fitment. Put 5 lug axles on the back also.
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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:24 am

So I guess I missed that.
What did you use? BCCP or ?
Is that a Scarebird bracket?

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:28 am

Oh yeah, I see it now. You talk about it back a little ways. So many people posting here I lost continuity on projects.
Is that Ben's 5 lug bracket?

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by custom880 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:40 pm

yup that's Ben's work. I'm real happy with the way it went together and the kit came complete with proportioning valve, new pedal rod and some other things.
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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:38 pm

Very nice. What master cylinder did you use and did it take cutting? Power or manual.

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Re: Front disc brake conversion (Scarebird)

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