Aluminum Champion radiators

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:44 pm

I think the stock 2 row is probably not enough, when I look at those rads it's like, really? And as I understand it they were known for cooling problems. But I would think a good 3 row would do the job. If you recore go for a High Efficiency 3row, tighter tube spacing means more tubes and more cooling fins, it really helps. Plus, it uses stock stuff! As I constantly try and remind myself, a little custom leads to a lot more custom.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:47 am

On the crossflow design the top section is not a dead area. The fan pulls air through the rad in the area and there is a gap in the front subframe that allows grill air to that area. I fabbed my top mount to provide an intake shroud that better captures the grill air and directs it to that area of the rad when at speed or when going slow when the fan is the key to air flow. Hard to see in the pics but that mount is not against the rad. Also, with a shroud the air is pulled through the entire core resulting in much better cooling than with no shroud. One of the 62 service manuals mentions a shroud for the crossflow/fan clutch HD Cooling option but I've never seen one.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:18 am

62cutlassconvert wrote:As I constantly try and remind myself, a little custom leads to a lot more custom.

True, that! I already have custom brakes and that is a project in itself, but as I see it, a needed safety improvement. As long as I can run it cool, I'll leave the radiator alone. I may build a fan shroud, but that is more a 'bolt on' solution as opposed to a re-engineer.

Something like this: Fibreglass Fan Shroud

Just drove in with the 2 row this morning. 75 deg F, 6.5 mi, 25 minutes. local surface streets.
Check out the link: Temp Gage

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:34 am

That shroud project is interesting, saw a different post a while ago that was very similar.

Looked at the Temp Gage link it shows running quite high at almost 220. Was there another image there?

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:55 am

That was the image. I had just pulled into a parking spot. 220 is crazy. The temp light was not on, but that may be why these things overheated. Standard 2 row and no shroud. At 60 mph it may be better, but I am not so sure.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:08 pm

Yeah, too hot. The 61 F85 Service manual says the light comes on at a very high temp, something significantly over 220. And the oil light comes on at 3 lbs I think. Essentially they tell you you're already in trouble! Seems more like a "your screwed light" than a warning light.

There may be many out there running stock 2 rows rads but I would be much more comfortable with a 3 row High Efficiency core if your're going to stick with the stock rad. US Radiator offers one as a direct replacement or you could have yours recored if you want to keep the Harrison tanks.

I'm assuming your thermostat/pump/belt/cap are all working properly?

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:58 pm

Oh yeah. all I did was pull the 3 row and replace it with a 2 row and it went from 190 to 220. Belt, pump, t-stat, cap all OK. I owe you the belt number for the alternator. I read it off the belt over the weekend, but do not have it with me right now.
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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:29 am

Guys,

Just to keep you in the loop with my aluminum radiator project. I bought the aluminum one from Champion Radiators.

We spoke at length about the fitment. Rad fits like a glove but filler cap hits hood. I am in the process of having a TIG welder weld mounting l brackets to the tank and he is moving the filler neck to the middle of the rad; thus no longer making contact with the hood.

I will post pics when I get it back.

Chris
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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:28 am

Are you having him weld up side brackets on the tanks like the stock crossflow rad?

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:47 am

62cutlassconvert wrote:Are you having him weld up side brackets on the tanks like the stock crossflow rad?

My stock rad actually mounted with a clam shell mount on the top of rad support on my 62 Skylark.

I am going to drill holes and do a rubber mount into the rad support. He is mounting the L brackets on the sides.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:35 pm

If I follow you correctly it sounds similar to the stock lower mounting on the HD crossflow option. Have you seen that? The L brackets are mounted on side of the tanks at an angle so rad matches eng angle and they bolt up to the two stock bolts on the front radiator support/front subframe about 2/3 of the way down at the side of the rad with a couple of rubber pads. Thought about doing that but didn't want to weld to the new rad.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:04 pm

62cutlassconvert wrote:If I follow you correctly it sounds similar to the stock lower mounting on the HD crossflow option. Have you seen that? The L brackets are mounted on side of the tanks at an angle so rad matches eng angle and they bolt up to the two stock bolts on the front radiator support/front subframe about 2/3 of the way down at the side of the rad with a couple of rubber pads. Thought about doing that but didn't want to weld to the new rad.

I am not sure.  Here is a pic of the L brackets TIG welded on the rad.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:29 pm

Oh, I was thinking it was a crossflow. Nice looking rad. No, those mounts aren't like the orig crossflow design. I'll see if I can get a pict of the side of the crossflow rad mounts and where it goes on the front subframe.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:45 am

Here's a pict of the factory lower mount for the Jetfire crossflow rad that is on the side of the rad. It sits on the front subframe flange (bolt next to the petcock) shown in the other picture with a couple of grommets. Top mount is similar to the crossflow top mount. The second pict shows my rad with does not that the factory mounts.


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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:45 am

Update on mine guys.

So I had my welder do the side mounting brackets and move the filler neck to the middle of the rad.

Mounted rad up last night and the damn radiator cap is still coming in contact with the hood.  cherry

its not hitting real bad; just barely scratching the paint on the underside of the hood.  I can live with it but my question is this.  Is this going to affect how the rad cap operates?  I would think so.  The only other thing I can do would be to cut the 1st layer of the rad support out and try to sink the rad down a little.  

I really don't want to tilt the rad back nor do I have a lot of room to do that with my wastegate being about 1/8" away from the rad to begin with.  

Sigh....

Between this and having to cut my floor and raise it for the 1 piece driveshaft, its becoming a pain in the a$$.


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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by regal81455 on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:07 pm

Should have had him take a small section of the top tank out and recess and slightly tilt it ( 15* ) towards the front end. Otherwise looks like you're getting close!

How's that 72 coming along Chris?

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:23 pm

regal81455 wrote:Should have had him take a small section of the top tank out and recess and slightly tilt it ( 15* ) towards the front end.  Otherwise looks like you're getting close!

How's that 72 coming along Chris?

I already am into this radiator for $150.00 in the mods he did. I am thinking I am done doing anything else to the rad. :-)

Slow. Been bouncing between that and the 62.

Used those Fel-pro gaskets but they were way too thick. Had a front and rear manifold gap of about 1/4" and it didn't seal.

I tore intake back off and bought the .032" TA Performance gaskets (they were the ones that were on there when I initially took intake off)

Got it all bolted back on. Just need to finish buttoning up front end of motor and were gonna give her hell!
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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by regal81455 on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:44 pm

Hear ya on the rad -- that's why I fig'd Id just bite the bullet and spend the $900 w/ Griffin once.  Haven't yet cause it's not a necessity at this point but will likely do it around Xmas time since the car will be stuck in the garage for a few months anyways..

When you say it didn't seal what do you mean?  Were the ports closed up?  The front and rear really don't do anything but stop the oil from the cam/lifter valley from making a huge mess.  There is no vacuum to be lost there, if it's going to run it would've even if you'd left that gap completely unsealed.  My engine had probably 3/8" gap or more.  Used a whole caulk tube of permatex to close it up but never had any issues.  Shouldn't have been any cause for concern -- either way, you should ( and did ) what you felt was necessary so no harm, no foul but you probably spent $100 and alot time for nothing...just sayin'

And LOL well keep me posted bruddah -- hope it works out for ya!

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:51 pm

Don't think I like the idea of the rad cap knocking on the hood. This sounds kinda extreme, and of course more money, but you could seal the rad with no cap and run a detached expansion tank with the rad cap.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:42 pm

regal81455 wrote:Hear ya on the rad -- that's why I fig'd Id just bite the bullet and spend the $900 w/ Griffin once.  Haven't yet cause it's not a necessity at this point but will likely do it around Xmas time since the car will be stuck in the garage for a few months anyways..

When you say it didn't seal what do you mean?  Were the ports closed up?  The front and rear really don't do anything but stop the oil from the cam/lifter valley from making a huge mess.  There is no vacuum to be lost there, if it's going to run it would've even if you'd left that gap completely unsealed.  My engine had probably 3/8" gap or more.  Used a whole caulk tube of permatex to close it up but never had any issues.  Shouldn't have been any cause for concern -- either way, you should ( and did ) what you felt was necessary so no harm, no foul but you probably spent $100 and alot time for nothing...just sayin'

And LOL well keep me posted bruddah -- hope it works out for ya!

Yeah, I should have just bought the stock rad for like $500.00 from OPGI and called it a day.

The ports were closed up but the front and rear weren't sealed up the whole way. There were voids. Know its only oil coming out but still like to seal everything up. I used an entire tube up too and it still didn't seal. Not sure what the deal was. Yeah, gaskets were only like $30.00 so no big deal. :-)

Will do pal. Gonna see what I can do to get the 72 up and running and get the 62 closer to completion.

Thanks Josh! :-)
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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by Esasky's62Lark on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:44 pm

62cutlassconvert wrote:Don't think I like the idea of the rad cap knocking on the hood. This sounds kinda extreme, and of course more money, but you could seal the rad with no cap and run a detached expansion tank with the rad cap.

Yeah, I thought about doing that. Maybe getting a Moroso one that ties into the upper hose but figured with all the other stuff going on under the hood and not much real estate, (turbo piping, turbo oil feed and return lines, remote oil filter lines, etc.) I would try to keep it the way it is now.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:36 pm

Update on my radiator. I now have the 3 row back in. Runs at 180F again. I got a price on a re-core using the original Harrison tanks. 400 for a 3 row similar to mine but with more fins. 450 for a 4 row. That is th same price as the US Radiator with the 60s era core. It looks like OPGI sells some of these at a slight discount to US radiator. The High efficiency is not listed, though. High Efficiency is $505, and probably worth it for the extra 50 bucks for me here and less time dealing with the local shop around here. Chicago can be a pain like that.

Whatever anyone wants to do on the topic of radiators, I want to go on record as saying strongly: "do not get a 2 row radiator for these cars. It is just not adequate, especially without a shroud." If you have a 2 row, do yourself a favor, save up a few bucks and get a 3 row. At least a 'Standard Automotive 3 row Core' or a 'High Efficiency 3 row Core'. If all you have is a temp light, you are probably driving around unaware of how hot it is really getting. As far as re-engineering a radiator solution, there are options and some of them may be 'better' and they will work well. but a wise man once said "'better' ain't always better". I think some of the posters above would second that. As far as cooling, all you need is the thermostat to open and close to regulate engine temp with the thermostat temp. If that can happen reliably up to about 85F ambient, or so you should be 'good' in most places in the US. If engine temp edges up to 200 or 210 in traffic in 100F ambient temps, that is not necessarily 'bad' unless you suffer other issues (vapor lock, etc). In other locales, you may need more. A 4 row vertical will fit and can be fabbed up with original tanks. Also, there are high efficiency options from US Rad. Both of those will fit with original hoses, brackets, etc.

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Update on Installation of Champion Aluminum Radiator 62 special Convertible

Post by Jim O on Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:59 pm

Last year I had questions about installing a aluminum radiator in my 62 special.  After much to-do and a considerable expense I think I have this issue solved.  My original radiator would overheat (230) after driving for 30 minutes.  I installed the CC1649 Champion Radiator that was supposed to fix right in.  The side and top mounting was not much problem (made new brackets) I positioned the radiator almost as original on  1/8" rubber.  Worked fine.  Until I put the cap on.  The cap was hitting the hood by about 1/8".  I tried modifying  the radiator by moving the spout to the side of the radiator.  I positioned the spout as low as I could go into where it was touching the cooling fins.  Again, it fit without the cap, with the cap it touched the hood on the inner for front edge, (1/8").   I could not get any hood adjustment nor lower the radiator enough to get it to not touch.   The radiator was supposed to fit according to Champion.  I took the old original one to a Radiator Shop in Waukesha Wi. (Mike Radiator) that does a lot of custom stuff.   They built a new radiator with the exact side and top width as the original.
They say this one will fit but I think the difference might be in the slope of the different hood and years.  It was close, but without modifying the lower frame it was a no go. Lesson learned:   Cost of new Champion $250.  To modify it with a side mount: $200.  The make up a new one with an extra 3 core instead of 2 core with the same Height $425.00   I will attempt to attach photos, but have not had good luck b4 on this forum.  Good luck and happy motoring this summer.
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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

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