Aluminum Champion radiators

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:02 am

Thanks very much. Yeah, worked on that project for a while, hope it cools like I think it will. Have a separate trans cooler mounted on those angled brackets in front of the rad.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:05 am

Couldn't find this pic earlier. This is the Northern radiator as received from the Northern Factory.  They have a huge selection of radiators/shrouds/coolers. They fabbed up the blank as I spec'd with the 1.5" inlet and outlet locations/fill/petcock/sesnsor bung. 2x 1" tube high efficiency core. Headers are very solid and are marked up for shroud install. Stock pre-formed crossflow upper hose is available from Fusick Olds so original thermostat housing is good, stock lower and upper hose both fit perfect. Very good company to work with. Once we discussed my drawing of the rad they shipped in 2 days.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:38 am

No problem. I am happy with the price. The blank, which is the radiator with the core and side tanks-no connections other than a bung for pressure testing was about $200 and to have the various connections done to my specs were about $100, so about $300 +shipping for the finished radiator. They did all the fab work in house, which is what they told me they like to do on the blanks, and it carries the factory warranty if done that way. I gave them a dwg with locating dimensions and sizes and they fabbed it right up. Worked with a guy named Denny, great guy. They sold me the rad, the eng driven fan shroud blank kit which is NOT the electric fan shroud they show as a partner to the rad, a trans cooler-rad does not come with a trans cooler inside, cooler install kit, and rad cap with zinc anode attached, all at excellent prices direct and shipped all from the Northern Factory in MN. I can dig up the shroud PN if anyone is interested, it is NOT spec'd as the shroud for this rad but it fits very nice. Very good directions on the Northern site but the site is a little complicated to navigate, Denny can help. Not as nice as welded up tanks but seems to be a good, very solid rad.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:20 pm

Have you installed the radiator, yet? How tough was the  install? I have a leak in one of the down tubes and need to get it fixed or replaced. I do *not* want to cut fab and install, but just install. I have enough projects right now other than to fabricate pieces to install a radiator. Is there a part number for the upper radiator hose you are using? Is it this Hose I'd like to do the same thing. Will I have to modify anything other than get the fusick upper hose?

Also, this was posted:
61-63 V6: 12 3/8" x 25 1/4"
61-63 V8: 12 3/8" x 23 1/8"

is this right? I measured mine in my '62 v8 and it is 23 3/4" wide and top of tank to bottom of tank is 18" Are the dimensions above for the core only?

Keith in Chicago


Last edited by keithg on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more info)

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by regal81455 on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:13 am

Keith--

IIRC I remember seeing a post on the yahoo group indicating there is six different radiator combos. This is most likely the reason why it is so hard to find a drop in. Seems everyone has a different size radiator every time this subject is crossed. Your best bet is to take the measurements you have from your OEM rad and call one these custom rad places and see what they can do for you. At this point I'm convinced there is no "single" correct rad for these cars.

Josh
(just south of chicago Very Happy )

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:02 am

Keith,

Did you see my earlier post from June 14 that goes a little deeper into what it took and some additional pics-if you want this set up you will be fabbing the top mount out of 12-14ga sheet alum and a piece of channel supplied by Northern. The bottom mounts are copied from my original downflow mounts but in alum and sized to fit the new rad. The shroud blank does not have the fan cut out-you must do that along with the fan arches. Once fitted the necessary parts need to be welded up.

You could modify the stock brackets to fit by bending and cutting but the new ones work better.

It is installed but the car is not running yet. To install and remove is easy-two top mount bolts to body, two top mount bolts to rad/shoud, push shroud back over fan and pull rad out.

The rad I used is a very close fit in my original location, it is about 25.75" wide x 16.5" high including tanks and headers-just slips in and there is room there to clearance the opening a little if needed. See the June 14 posting for dim. Norhtern has many sizes of blanks you could have them set up to your spec if this size is not good for you. Final height including the top and bottom mounts with grommets is about at stock height when mounted.

The Fusick Olds upper cross flow hose is 585964 applicaton is 62-63 Olds Jetfire and Olds F85/Cutlass 62-63 AC cars with HD cooling.

In my opinion, if you don't want to do any fab work either have your downflow rad re-cored with a High Efficiency 3 or 4 tube core, or buy a new model specific downflow from US Radiator-they have several core and tube options for these cars, or get a complete cross flow set up from a car with HD Cooling which will include all necessary brackets which I assume will fit your car (good luck with that one). Griffin or other custom shops can also supply but I think your looking at $800 or so from them, and then you may be back to fab work for brackets anyway.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by regal81455 on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:21 am

To expand on the above -- the strangest thing occurred a few weeks back, I actually spoke with Northern shortly after you posted your pics of the rad you purchased from them. I spent some time talking back and forth via email and was eventually told and I quote "We do not customer build radiators so unfortunately that wouldn’t be an option." So I'm really not certain how you even managed to get what you got....

Furthermore Ive already crossed paths with numerous custom aluminum shops including Griffin -- Griffin was the only one whom said they could provide something that was per the dimensions of the OEM rad I have and the total cost was going to be $950.00 -- probably worth it but at the present time I just don't have the extra jack for it. Hoping to make that purchase over the course of the next year...

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:39 am

Please note the radiator I purchased is not a fully custom radiator. It is a fully constructed in-stock radiator Blank without any in/out or other fittings including the fill spout. You pick a Blank size/type from the list, spec where you want what fittings and they do that at Northern.

I just spoke with Denny at the Wilmar MN facility yesterday about something else and was telling him I had posted on a couple of forums and he said great, always looking for more business.

I don't think all the Northern sites do the fab work. For sure talk to Denny at the Wilmar Minnesota location 1-800-328-8900, I believe he can help you. I'll check in with him again too.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:56 pm

I talked to Denny and he confirms they still fab up their blanks to finished rads with your additions for you at the factory in Wilmar MN. You need to talk to him, he is the guy on this program. They have also now added the option of a trans/oil cooler in the tank for the blanks which they did not have when I bought mine. They have many blanks of different sizes and are really nice to work with. They can also offer a rad/elect fan with shroud package if you want to go that route.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:45 pm

Well, I got a reconditioned original 2 row radiator from a guy on the Yahoo group. I'll put that in it for now as there are a couple weepers on the 3 row. I'll see how it does in the heat. One question I have is why not keep the inlet and outlet on the same side on a cross flow and put a baffle half way down like they do on cross flow AC condensers. I'm guessing that there would be more restriction as you have half the flow area, but that can be addressed with tube diameter or number.

I'll probably see if one of the blanks from Northern can be fashioned to work with that fusick upper hose in my car. I just can't do it now, maybe this fall. Lost of measuring and designing, again. This is sounding a lot like the 'bolt on' disc brake brackets, again... Crying or Very sad

FWIW, I ordered a Dorman puke tank on amazon and installed it in the car on Friday. I was able to mount it on the fender next to the windshield reservoir.

Keith

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:11 pm

62cutlassconvert,

A couple questions. What diameter fan are you using? Can you post a picture of the Fusick hose installed? It looks like it may hit my fan unless it is shrouded/supported somehow. I have taken measurements and am trying to draw up what will work for me.

Keith (In Chicago)

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:17 pm

Talked to Northern about that and they thought with the low height of the rad it wouldn't be effective, although you/they could certainly do a two pass set up if you wanted to.  Yeah, no promises of "bolt on" here though, full disclosure, it is trial and error. See my first bracket sitting on the engine block in one of my pics from the earlier post.

I do have a new in the box, crossflow, Cu/Brass, 4 tube, one off US Radiator that I worked with the US Rad owner to design that will fit in the Olds. It uses a core that was from another application and side tanks from a different application for a kinda hybrid. Bent the stock upper and lower brackets and it fit. Never used it. Decided to go with the alum route and shroud. Contact me if you or anyone is interested. I don't see classified here.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:26 pm

Flexalite 15" Fan clutch fan-NOT a flex fan. See my post on page 6 from June 14, it goes into more detail with pics. The big fan could be a problem-I think the stock HD fan is a 7 blade/fan clutch 17 or 18". The crossflow rad in the HD Cooling Olds option has a support coming off the center top mount that supports the hose from the bottom. See if you can find some pics of 62-63 Jetfire engine compartments and it should be visible. Not sure if I will need it with the shroud I set up and the smaller fan but if I do I will bring something simple up off one of the top waterpump bolts. The 15" fan with shroud should pull plenty of air.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:08 pm






Hers a picture of the Fusick hose installed and good and the Northern rad with shroud. Hose is a couple of inches from the fan in this set up so I don't think a support needed. I'll be keeping an eye on it. TH200C attached to eng.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:00 am

No cutting, but we massaged the tunnel with a little heat/porta power/hammer to provide some additional room. Orig floor console still fits, orig shift lever inside the car, slight mod to the linkage plate inside the car due to the change in Reverse location, new shift rod under car. Trimmed the top tabs off the trans and adapter so no bolts on top and had to do some minor additional clearancing of the case to provide clearance. It's tight, the 200C is really small and light, much smaller/shorter case than the 2004R. Got a guy down in the Los Angeles area that builds the 200C for Hot Rods and small dragsters. Using a B&M controller to control torque converter lock-up.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:47 am

Yeah, we think it'll work out pretty good. Still gotta shorten the driveshaft. We used a TH200C empty case with a stripped block to get the clearancing right. Had it in and out a bunch of times but with the stripped block you don't have to drop the susp and can just pop it in and out with a lift. Adapted the stock rear mount and it works but may end up making a custom mount for it. REMAC in San Dimas CA was $1200+tx/shp for rebld and torque conv, that includes him providing the core. That price is 2014 so I don't know what if any change there would be. Trans is upgraded from stock in a variety of ways. Leo Glasbrenner is the owner and is the guy to talk to on the 200C.

Yes and is that thing heavy! 62 olds came with generators and I'm going to go with it for now but I just picked up a 63 alternator bracket (1 pc style) and will switch if the generator gives me problems.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:02 pm

off topic: The generator will give you problems if my experience is any indicator... Low voltage at idle and dimmed lights poorly charged batteries (shortened life) were the problems I had. It is a couple hour ordeal at worst to put an internal regulated alternator in with the bracket. I can give you the number of the belt I used as well. That was my biggest problem switching over, getting the correct belt.

I got a used 63 alternator and bracket. Took the alternator to advanced auto and matched one up that was internally regulated (80A) had to take the screws out and clock the front housing wrt the back to get the tensioning ear in the right place. Piece of cake.

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:16 pm

I agree with you guys, alternator is the way to go and thanks for the info but I finally got this thing in and want to try to get it on the road soon, alternator will have to wait.

Would appreciate the belt number, but I am using a B&B overdrive pulley so it may still not be right, but a good starting point if nothing else.

T5, nice!

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:45 pm

I've had some thoughts about this radiator thingy... First, the top 3" of the radiator (above the front support) do not help with cooling. If we go with a cross flow, we loose the cross sectional area of the end tanks but gain the 2.5" of the lower tank 24" wide. I'm thinking of buying a blank and fabricating one that integrates an aluminum tube welded to the top of the radiator to take the place of the fusick hose , but going across in the dead air space that was the top tank. Ideally, I'd figure out how to have an expansion tank above the radiator, but maybe that would not work. In the meantime, I am installing a refurbished 2 row OEM radiator while I figure out what I want to do.

Keith

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Re: Aluminum Champion radiators

Post by keithg on Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:51 pm

OMG... I just put in a used/repaired 2 row OEM radiator today as my 3 row has a leak and needs to be repaired/re-cored... I cannot believe how much worse it is compared to a 3 row. It is 75F outside and I just drove around the neighborhood. Normally as long as I am moving, it runs at 190F, even if it is 90F outside with the 3 row. With the 2 row that was repaired and pressure checked it is 205F to 210F and that is just puttering around the neighborhood at 25mph and not sitting in traffic. I'm going to get the 3 row repaired and put that back in. I live in Chicago proper and there is a lot of sitting in traffic around here. I've toyed with the idea of replacing it with a cross flow design, but I am thinking a repaired 3 row top down should be good enough as long as it holds pressure... A cross flow is a lot of work and money to design and build. I do not think it is worth it for me though it is probably 'better'.

Keith

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