4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

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4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Sun May 15, 2016 3:24 pm

I have 8k miles on my 61 special now. The overhauled 215 is running fine. It has a 2 bbl. carb and now I would like to upgrade to a 4 bbl. I can get a manifold, but what carb goes on it? I have a dual path automatic for a trans. so I will need the kick down connection on the carb. Also does anyone have a 4 bbl. manifold and or carb. for sell?

Thanks
Pat,
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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by regal81455 on Sun May 15, 2016 7:31 pm

The recommended if not worried about stock appearance would be the edelbrock manifold and a edlebrock 500cfm, jetted down for our little eights...

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Sun May 22, 2016 8:37 am

I found and purchased a 4 bbl. manifold.  Does any one know what carbs will fit on it? Question http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_question.gif
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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 215skylark on Sun May 22, 2016 10:24 am

I had responded to your wanted ad for manifold and carb. I have the factory carb an manifold.
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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by regal81455 on Mon May 23, 2016 7:35 am

pthurman48 wrote:I found and purchased a 4 bbl. manifold.  Does any one know what carbs will fit on it? Question http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_question.gif

4GC ( factory 4bl ) or 500cfm Edelbrock / AFB style

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:55 am

I got the new manifold and carb(4GC) ready for install.  I have the new value cover gaskets and intake manifold(valley pan) gasket ready to go also. The new valley pan is very flat coming out of fel-pro box.  Does anyone have any tip/tricks/options on how to install this valley pan.  How do you get it bent to the shape of the valley.  It came in a box about 1" thick(very flat).  Help.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by regal81455 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:07 am

Once you're ready to install the valley pan, it will conform to the shape it needs with just a little hand pressure while setting in place -- no magic here.

Would be wise to use some gasgacinch or similar around the water ports. No reason not to put it around all the ports to be honest but water ports at a minimum.

#1 -- this helps keep the pan in place while installing the intake.
#2 -- it will also ensure a leak free seal in the event your heads or manifold surfaces are not perfectly flat.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:31 am

I worked with a buddy to install it. We aligned it to the holes on one side and dropped a couple intake bolts in to locate it while we conformed it to the other side. Once conformed we put the front and rear clamps in loosely which held it in place, removed the locating bolts, placed the intake on and bolted it down. For sure use a sealant. I used the RightStuff on both water and a smear on the intake ports.

Also, I may be wrong here but I would imagine the 2bbl vs. even the base 4bbl cams are different. You won't get the full benefit of a 4bbl without a 4bbl cam. Also assuming you have the higher compression the 4bbl eng would normally have. Without these 2 specs your performance may actually suffer down low.

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All most complete

Post by pthurman48 on Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:40 am

This morning I finished the 4bbl. manifold/carb upgrade.  Well all most finished, I had two coolant leaks on heater hoses at the clamped ends.  I relocated the gas filter(original glass bowl type) to above the fuel pump and beside the power steering pump.  The manifold had a thermostat outlet and thermostat installed, the thermostat would not open, so I had to change it out.  The tranny linkage and carb linkage may not be correct, but the spring(original) will not return the carb to idle after slight operation, fast and quick it does return to idle, soft easy does not.  The new manifold does not have mounting holes for the ignition coil.  The engine starts and runs good, have not driven yet because I don't have an air cleaner/filter yet. I want the original type, if any one needs a 2bbl. original air cleaner(good shape) I have one for sale.  If any one has an original 4bbl. air cleaner, Lets talk.







Last edited by pthurman48 on Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:47 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : adding pictures)
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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:21 pm

I may be wrong but I think you have your 2 upper heater hoses reversed. I know on the Olds the bottom valve fitting goes to the rear of the manifold and the upper valve fitting has a   V  shaped hose that goes from the valve to the upper core fitting. Lower core fitting routes to the water pump. You can use this preformed hose with a little cutting to go from the valve to the manifold. Thanks to Jim Noels on the Jetfire site for this info on hose to use. The lower “S” shape is Gates #19604 Used on Jetfires to go from the lower core fitting to the transfer pipe that goes to the rad and the upper “J” shape is Gates #21860.  I'm gunna try and attach a picture of a Jetfire eng for that site.


Pics didn't come out as I wanted but I think you can see them. Why is it so confusing to attach pictures? I don't do it often and it seem like a rather convoluted process.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:27 am

62cutlassconvert wrote:I may be wrong but I think you have your 2 upper heater hoses reversed. I know on the Olds the bottom valve fitting goes to the rear of the manifold and the upper valve fitting has a   V  shaped hose that goes from the valve to the upper core fitting. Lower core fitting routes to the water pump. You can use this preformed hose with a little cutting to go from the valve to the manifold. Thanks to Jim Noels on the Jetfire site for this info on hose to use. The lower “S” shape is Gates #19604 Used on Jetfires to go from the lower core fitting to the transfer pipe that goes to the rad and the upper “J” shape is Gates #21860.  I'm gunna try and attach a picture of a Jetfire eng for that site.


Pics didn't come out as I wanted but I think you can see them. Why is it so confusing to attach pictures? I don't do it often and it seem like a rather convoluted process.

You are correct. The hose is just heater hose and this is the best (I thought) and it not kink the hose, but it still does some. Thanks for the info on the formed hose replacements. I will order them now and fix that when I get them.

Where/how I am replying to your post does not allow attaching files. The problem here is that the "Max size per file" is 0 Mb. I edit the posting after posting it. It works that way I know.
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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:28 am

Sure is a great looking engine/compartment. Really nice.
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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:12 am

Gotta give credit to Jim Noel on the eng compartment, one of his Jetfires. He does nice work doesn't he. Also rebuilds the Tubos for the Jetfires and they come out beautiful, red porcelain and all.

The upper V shaped hose is just a 3/4" V shaped hose I got at a autoparts store and cut down, no specific number. That transfer pipe for the bottom heater core (S shaped hose)outlet has the nipple on it for cooling to the turbo n the Jetfire, not needed for non-turbo cars. I made up a transfer pipe for my 4bbl car without the nipple (just 3/4" ss pipe cut to length) to go front to back instead of using a big long heater hose draped over the head and intake, then a 90 degree 3/4" heater hose cut to length to drop down to the waterpump. Like it much better. You can kinda see it in my posting on page 7 of the Champion Radiator thread on the installed eng with the gold vcvrs. I'll get a better pic for you.

I participate in both the oldsjetfire.com forum and this one. Its dedicated to all the 61-63 F85 cars and both sides have lots of crossover info.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:44 pm

Hers's a pic of the cutlass compartment with a 4bbl

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:26 am

Looks real good. I have ordered the two gates hoses for my 215.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:05 am

Yeah, very good point. Guess my thinking was it's in the direct airflow of the rad/fan and it would cool, of course it cooks when the car is shut down. Without looking I think my Chevelle mounts on the eng too but haven't had any problems there. That coil is a Petronix, I'll give them a call.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:20 am

No, I got your point. But the direct air flow from the fan and when car is at speed blowing over the coil will dissipate heat from the surface and keep it cooler than say if was at the rear on the eng out of the airflow like the Chevelle's which mounts behind the carb on the intake. I am considering making a change based on the point you have raised and will be talking with Petronix about it. I'll post what they say.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by pthurman48 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:54 am

My father bought my first 61 buick special new.  I only got to drive/own the car after my father drove it, then after my mother drove it, them my older brother drove it, and then I got it after being drove hard and put up wet.  My next one was during college, I drove it for 4 yrs. then gave it to my roommate and he drove it for another 2 yrs of school, He gave it back to me and I gave it to the kid next door, he drove it for about a yr.  Both cars were original with coils on the manifold.  I never had to replace a coil yet.  The current coil is pertronix and have not had any problems .  I will also say that the new cars have coils on/in the heads close to the spark plugs.  The new cars also run a lot hotter.  The wire inside the coil has a baked on insulator coating.  I don't know what temp that is done at but as for me I am not worried about it.

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Re: 4 Bbl. manifold and carb upgrade

Post by 62cutlassconvert on Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:02 am

Petronix says that you need to be sure you mount the dist with the connections placed horizontally or a component inside the coil next to a connectorwill get too hot, but that it is acceptable to mount on the eng. So a little bit of yes and a little bit of no, similar to what Keith predicted.

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